“The money one gets for selling one’s soul is always spent in deadening one’s conscience, so the net gain at the end of a lifetime is no greater than if the diabolic bargain had not been struck.” Thomas Alva Edison
I have a fan club. haha Yes, they actually created a site to counter Negotiation is Over. But, I’m re-reading some of the entries and I can’t help but feel a little silly that I adopted a “mentor” who’s motives are anything but clear. As always, I use this blog to think out loud and throw things out there. I’m never sure what’s going to come back. But I need to make sure that I get this point out loud & clear: DON’T TRUST ANYONE! Or at least be a little smarter than I was about who you choose to align yourself with.
I’d like to take the time to show a few of these people, the owners of http://www.veganschool101.com and http://negotiationisover.com/, these people exhibit most of what has been said above, but also wish death on others with differing opinions, are glad when people die, and above all think that their actually helping something by doing this.
The Cult like speak of Radical Vegans and ARAs
Lets take a look at some of the words in the above quotes;
-corpse-munching – A person or other animal in the act of consuming another animal or animal based product.
-flesh, pus, and blood – Commonly used to describe animal products, The use of these words is to attempt to make the reader feel disgusted by the products.
-child-rapist – There not telling you you rape humans children, no there saying by simply using animal products you rape young animals, they apply this to products such as milk.
-robber-of-life -If you use animal products they apply this to you, however it can also be used for them too, there only vegan a far as it’s convenient for them. (IE. They still cause animal death)
-sub-human – Simply questioning their ideas gets you called this.
-anti-animal rights propaganda – Any one person or group of people who disagree with them, or say anything against them gets a person or group with this label.
-nonhuman life – They prefer not to call them animals instead they use this term.
NEGOTIATION IS OVER COMMENT: I HAVE TO ADMIT — THE ONLY ONE OF THESE PHRASES I CAN TRULY TAKE CREDIT FOR IS “NONHUMAN LIFE”. I’M JUST NOT THAT CREATIVE. But I am proud of the term “flesh-eating secretion-slurping parasite”. Yeah, maybe I am creative after all. 
In an article posted at Vegan School 101 in an article titled “Corpse-munchers are ruining everything: Smithfield’s Swine Flu Virus Update”, we can clearly see what I’ve described above, however when we reach the comments article we see this…
-This is so awesome! I can hardly wait for flu season to actually get here!
This recent article, and the comment that sparked the creation of this article.
Now lets go to Negotiation is Over (a blatant copy of Negotiation is Done), and see what they have up. Here’s a full list of quotes…
-Those who support the holocaust and savor the mutilated body parts of crucified miserable pigs deserve their karmic reward — swine flu death (and a slow one at that).
– I won’t shed a tear when thinking of the dead corpse-munchers…
-Poor little pigs. Our society is so depraved. Payback’s a bitch!
-…the death toll from this factory-farm-generated disease my be staggering.
I can only hope.
-…here’s hoping you already have cjd and swine flu is right around the corner.
-…it’s amusing that the death toll is starting to rise.
So what do you think now? You can find many more quotes on the blogs if you take a few moments to look around.
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My head is so twisted form this shit! At first I thought it wa a joke, but it clearly isn`t & I`m sick to my stomach.
This is ridiculous. If you have changed your stance as an ARA that’s fine,but why sabotage another ARA? This is so detrimental to the movement, makes you no better than an animal abuser, and makes us look weak to the opressor. You can change your stance to anything you want Dave Warwak, I am sure you would have been respected, but this nonsense you did puts you in the same category as trent loos.You obviously care way more about yourself than suffering animals.You ought to be ashamed of yourself.
Oh Gods, can we PLEASE stop pointing fingers — using direct names — and go back to hypotheticals and rhetoric? PLEASE?
Camille, you know you can always trust me. Well, no, you don’t know that. *I* know that, but you don’t. Nevertheless, I hope you know I’m there for whatever you need, no matter what.
And yes, we know more than I think he’d like us to know. On the other hand, he probably doesn’t care and is getting a fucking laugh out of us talking about him.
Can we stop the ego stroking?
Camille: good post. You’re right, we don’t really know who our friends are. I had a lot of red flags too, but I ignored them because I thought there was a greater good we were serving.
I should have known far better.
We both learned from this, and I think the community can learn from this.
I’m no ones puppet, either.
That’s why we work so well together
Looking at the entries above, he not only looks to have become a passafist, but genuinly like he doesn`t give two shits about animals & has denounced the whole movement.
Camille, I feel for you, I’m only an observer and I’m feeling numb over this whole business. You’re right, you/we have learned a hard lesson now the best thing is to move on.
Since nobody has mentioned the name of the person who started all this shit-I will! Gary Francione. Dave Warwak has completely sold his soul out (and all of his friends) to this ego-maniac who preaches non-violence with every breath,but is in truth nothing but a mean little wanna-be dictator who craves fame and adoration and will do ANYTHING to get it!
I don’t think any one of us would have an issue with Dave’s transition to non-violence. I’m pretty sure in the very least that Camille, myself and Ward would have supported him.
THAT is not the problem.
The problem is the utter hypocrisy, the attacks and the sabotage. The sheer betrayal he has committed. We do not sound like a cult, we sound like a bunch of people who are extremely angry and/or upset by a severe betrayal by someone who was once a close friend.
Hello Camille.
Have you spoken to Dave since? I have – if you wish I will send you a screenshot of our brief conversation.
I couldn’t be bothered to wait. Check your inbox.
As someone who is “associated” with Francione, I can assure you that we most certainly do not want Warwak. He’s as much of a nutjob as most of you people, so you can definitely keep him. Thanks, though.
No one is upset with warwak’s change of heart-what we are upset with is is deliberate sabatoge of camille. This is dangerous shit not to be taken lightly. This is the kind of shit that undercover fbi agents pull. They befriend an ara in the movement and then turn on them with the intent of prosecuting them under the aeta. Fbi agents have gone as far as having romantic relationships with ara’s and earth activists, attempting to lure them into direct actions that would net them prision time.Don’t think it can happen? Just ask shac, imprisioned for running a website and a very effective campaign. We might all joke and say that dave sucks however do not underestimate the seriousness of what this asshole did. Green is the new red.
Peter,
I received your email. Thank you.
If you think I’m going to offer up Warwak to you for some kind of entertainment value, you’re seriously mistaken. You are still slime.
Whatever I had to say to Warwak was said. Whatever he had to say to me was said. Now the movement will speak for itself.
That does not include you.
You are still unworthy of commentary. And if you send me some more pictures, I’ll be happy to post your fat ugly ass on my website.
Camille
I’ll second or third a couple of the comments above; I have little doubt that Jen or Camille or any of a dozen other regulars who read Camille’s blog would have had a huge issue with Warwak’s rhetorical conversion. (They’ve never particularly ostracized me, and it’s utterly well known that I fall into the pacifist camp, at this point.)
*If* Warwak is the source of the “death threats” rant that GF nattered on about a week ago, that’s not about a change in values; that’s just childishness. If Warwak logged into Camille’s blog and deleted content, again, that’s not about a change in values or perspective; it’s just childishness.
I don’t agree that ‘any’ change is beneficial (re dave warwak). Only gaining momentum in the right direction is sound. So, i’m upset to hear he’s a turn coat. Camille, would you kindly message me to fill me in on what actually happened. Thank you in anticipation you Angry Pacifist Bully Magnet you!! Only you can get the lunatics rushing to your blog to brag about their affiliation with Franciombe!! Hurrah to ya!! Great read my friend, oxymorons a plenty.
(Pfft is a Franciombe and brags about it here?! Whats that all about then?!).
Friends, you’ll recognise this fantastic image of franciombes wonderful imaginary world of wagging fingers at us)
http://meathaus.com/wp-content/images/jesus_and_the_bear_detail.jpg
Camille’s not an Angry Pacifist Magnet. She’s a Glamourous Pacifist Magnet…c.f., well, ME, of course. Hehe.
Ok Babbles… perhaps you’re the only angryless, glam pacifist… i’m on about the rest of ‘em!
Anyway, i take it that you’ll be slipping into dave’s seat, ward?! If you wanna use the innuendo’s thats fine by me as long as you gerroff that pacifist cushion of yours. You’ll get pins & needles you know!
Karen, honnah, you know who I am, right? (We know each other on FB, you and I) Hehe. No, I’m not slipping into Dave’s anything.
For the record, since it seems to need repeating: sitting around and inflating your ego because you’re “not ALF” is not pacifism, no matter what some folks in the “ahimsa” camp seem to think. Transporting animals liberated in a lab action? Pacifism. Sticking myself between cops and antiwar protesters on my side? Pacifism.
I’m not saying “offer no resistance.” I’m saying where I *do* act, it’s within my own moral framework. As ever, I’m ALSO not saying that MY choices should be EVERYBODY’S choices, in this.
As long as you don’t harm humans/nonhumans, go do what you’re going to do. Whether or not I’d do the *same* things is immaterial.
Never ignore those red flags. Always trust that first gut instinct. It’s your alarm bell, red flag,detour sign whatever, trying to save your ass before the logical part of your brain kicks in, tells you you’re being paranoid and convinces you to keep on goin right past that detour sign. I went off a few cliffs, crashed and landed right in the pokey because I blew off that little moment when the hairs raised up on the back of my neck. Thank God, my dumb ass finally wised up because, my instinct has saved me more than a few times from living with a lot of roommates in a big house. When you get that twinge that warns you a person or situation isn’t right that’s because it sure as hell isn’t. Your gut can save your ass.