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	<title>Comments on: 13 Ways to Promote Alliance Politics and Total Liberation</title>
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	<link>http://negotiationisover.com/2009/11/28/13-ways-to-promote-alliance-politics-and-total-liberation/</link>
	<description>declaring war on abusers and oppressors!</description>
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		<title>By: Dominique</title>
		<link>http://negotiationisover.com/2009/11/28/13-ways-to-promote-alliance-politics-and-total-liberation/comment-page-1/#comment-4608</link>
		<dc:creator>Dominique</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Dec 2009 05:46:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://negotiationisover.com/?p=4107#comment-4608</guid>
		<description>Great suggestions Steve, Thank you. When it comes down to it, you cannot negotiate with Humans that exhibit Sadistic personality disorder as defined by Wikipedia:

    A) A pervasive pattern of cruel, demeaning, and aggressive behavior, beginning by early adulthood, as indicated by the repeated occurrence of at least four of the following:

       1. has used physical cruelty or violence for the purpose of establishing dominance in a relationship (not merely to achieve some noninterpersonal goal, such as striking someone in order to rob him/her).
       2. Humiliates or demeans people in the presence of others.
       3. has treated or disciplined someone under his/her control unusually harshly.
       4. is amused by, or takes pleasure in, the psychological or physical suffering of others (including animals).
       5. has lied for the purpose of harming or inflicting pain on others (not merely to achieve some other goal).
       6. gets other people to do what he/she wants by frightening them (through intimidation or even terror).
       7. restricts the autonomy of people with whom he or she has a close relationship, e.g., will not let spouse leave the house unaccompanied or permit teenage daughter to attend social functions.
       8. is fascinated by violence, weapons, injury, or torture.

    B) The behavior in A has not been directed toward only one person (e.g., spouse, one child) and has not been solely for the purpose of sexual arousal (as in sexual sadism). 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sadistic_personality_disorder 
and:
Psychopathy (pronounced /saɪˈkɒpəθi/[1][2]) is a personality disorder whose hallmark is a lack of empathy. Robert Hare, a researcher in the field describes psychopaths as &quot;intraspecies predators[3][4] who use charm, manipulation, intimidation, sex and violence[5][6][7] to control others and to satisfy their own selfish needs. Lacking in conscience and empathy, they take what they want and do as they please, violating social norms and expectations without guilt or remorse&quot;.[8] &quot;What is missing, in other words, are the very qualities that allow a human being to live in social harmony.&quot;[9]

Psychopaths are glib and superficially charming, and many psychopaths are excellent mimics of normal human emotion;[10] some psychopaths can blend in, undetected, in a variety of surroundings, including corporate environments.[11] There is neither a cure nor any effective treatment for psychopathy; there are no medications or other techniques which can instill empathy, and psychopaths who undergo traditional talk therapy only become more adept at manipulating others.[12] The consensus among researchers is that psychopathy stems from a specific neurological disorder which is biological in origin and present from birth.[10] It is estimated that one percent of the general population are psychopaths.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychopathy 
Direct action is the ONLY choice if you really care to stop the insanity. Anyone that doesn&#039;t understand that is completely naive.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great suggestions Steve, Thank you. When it comes down to it, you cannot negotiate with Humans that exhibit Sadistic personality disorder as defined by Wikipedia:</p>
<p>    A) A pervasive pattern of cruel, demeaning, and aggressive behavior, beginning by early adulthood, as indicated by the repeated occurrence of at least four of the following:</p>
<p>       1. has used physical cruelty or violence for the purpose of establishing dominance in a relationship (not merely to achieve some noninterpersonal goal, such as striking someone in order to rob him/her).<br />
       2. Humiliates or demeans people in the presence of others.<br />
       3. has treated or disciplined someone under his/her control unusually harshly.<br />
       4. is amused by, or takes pleasure in, the psychological or physical suffering of others (including animals).<br />
       5. has lied for the purpose of harming or inflicting pain on others (not merely to achieve some other goal).<br />
       6. gets other people to do what he/she wants by frightening them (through intimidation or even terror).<br />
       7. restricts the autonomy of people with whom he or she has a close relationship, e.g., will not let spouse leave the house unaccompanied or permit teenage daughter to attend social functions.<br />
       8. is fascinated by violence, weapons, injury, or torture.</p>
<p>    B) The behavior in A has not been directed toward only one person (e.g., spouse, one child) and has not been solely for the purpose of sexual arousal (as in sexual sadism).<br />
<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sadistic_personality_disorder" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sadistic_personality_disorder</a><br />
and:<br />
Psychopathy (pronounced /saɪˈkɒpəθi/[1][2]) is a personality disorder whose hallmark is a lack of empathy. Robert Hare, a researcher in the field describes psychopaths as &#8220;intraspecies predators[3][4] who use charm, manipulation, intimidation, sex and violence[5][6][7] to control others and to satisfy their own selfish needs. Lacking in conscience and empathy, they take what they want and do as they please, violating social norms and expectations without guilt or remorse&#8221;.[8] &#8220;What is missing, in other words, are the very qualities that allow a human being to live in social harmony.&#8221;[9]</p>
<p>Psychopaths are glib and superficially charming, and many psychopaths are excellent mimics of normal human emotion;[10] some psychopaths can blend in, undetected, in a variety of surroundings, including corporate environments.[11] There is neither a cure nor any effective treatment for psychopathy; there are no medications or other techniques which can instill empathy, and psychopaths who undergo traditional talk therapy only become more adept at manipulating others.[12] The consensus among researchers is that psychopathy stems from a specific neurological disorder which is biological in origin and present from birth.[10] It is estimated that one percent of the general population are psychopaths.<br />
<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychopathy" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychopathy</a><br />
Direct action is the ONLY choice if you really care to stop the insanity. Anyone that doesn&#8217;t understand that is completely naive.</p>
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		<title>By: Ways to Promote Alliance Politics &#124; Animal Rights Blog</title>
		<link>http://negotiationisover.com/2009/11/28/13-ways-to-promote-alliance-politics-and-total-liberation/comment-page-1/#comment-4603</link>
		<dc:creator>Ways to Promote Alliance Politics &#124; Animal Rights Blog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Dec 2009 03:18:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://negotiationisover.com/?p=4107#comment-4603</guid>
		<description>[...] of ahimsa in the background if you choose to read the remarkably tame and informative &#8220;13 Ways to Promote Alliance Politics and Total Liberation&#8221; by Steve Best. No ad-hominem attacks, just useful action steps, some of which you&#8217;ve [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] of ahimsa in the background if you choose to read the remarkably tame and informative &#8220;13 Ways to Promote Alliance Politics and Total Liberation&#8221; by Steve Best. No ad-hominem attacks, just useful action steps, some of which you&#8217;ve [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Negotiation Is Over</title>
		<link>http://negotiationisover.com/2009/11/28/13-ways-to-promote-alliance-politics-and-total-liberation/comment-page-1/#comment-4601</link>
		<dc:creator>Negotiation Is Over</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Dec 2009 00:43:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://negotiationisover.com/?p=4107#comment-4601</guid>
		<description>THANK YOU DEBBIE!!!!
 
While many are quite satisfied doing &quot;something&quot;, there are still a few of us determined to be EFFECTIVE.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>THANK YOU DEBBIE!!!!</p>
<p>While many are quite satisfied doing &#8220;something&#8221;, there are still a few of us determined to be EFFECTIVE.</p>
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		<title>By: Debbie Thomas</title>
		<link>http://negotiationisover.com/2009/11/28/13-ways-to-promote-alliance-politics-and-total-liberation/comment-page-1/#comment-4600</link>
		<dc:creator>Debbie Thomas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Dec 2009 00:27:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://negotiationisover.com/?p=4107#comment-4600</guid>
		<description>I absolutely agree with the need for a pluralist and contextualist and socialist apporach - many of the worlds problems including the enslavement of non-human animals, the burgeoning slave trade in women, ecological destruction and global warming which is the one that has grabbed people&#039;s attention - are interconnected because they are all produced from the same mentality/conceptual scheme which has come to dominate the world and make so many things invisible - that is the masculinist neo/liberalist paradigm and its economic system which not only does not &#039;represent&#039; reality (and that is a complex issue) but also has come to be the sole definer of the good - therefore tinkering approaches within such a faulty and destructive paradigm WILL NOT WORK - i believe i removed myself from the page of one of the writer&#039;s who protest at &#039;infighting&#039; amongst liberationist and that was preciesely because the single issue &#039;honey not vinegar&#039; touters just refused to see that this approach has not worked and how interconnected so many issues are - i bet they get to feel real good about themselves without having to get upset or employ some more braincells - but i want to be EFFECTIVE</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I absolutely agree with the need for a pluralist and contextualist and socialist apporach &#8211; many of the worlds problems including the enslavement of non-human animals, the burgeoning slave trade in women, ecological destruction and global warming which is the one that has grabbed people&#8217;s attention &#8211; are interconnected because they are all produced from the same mentality/conceptual scheme which has come to dominate the world and make so many things invisible &#8211; that is the masculinist neo/liberalist paradigm and its economic system which not only does not &#8216;represent&#8217; reality (and that is a complex issue) but also has come to be the sole definer of the good &#8211; therefore tinkering approaches within such a faulty and destructive paradigm WILL NOT WORK &#8211; i believe i removed myself from the page of one of the writer&#8217;s who protest at &#8216;infighting&#8217; amongst liberationist and that was preciesely because the single issue &#8216;honey not vinegar&#8217; touters just refused to see that this approach has not worked and how interconnected so many issues are &#8211; i bet they get to feel real good about themselves without having to get upset or employ some more braincells &#8211; but i want to be EFFECTIVE</p>
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		<title>By: Negotiation Is Over</title>
		<link>http://negotiationisover.com/2009/11/28/13-ways-to-promote-alliance-politics-and-total-liberation/comment-page-1/#comment-4583</link>
		<dc:creator>Negotiation Is Over</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 29 Nov 2009 17:09:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://negotiationisover.com/?p=4107#comment-4583</guid>
		<description>Alistair,

Most infighting results from those who criticize, negate, and dismiss direct action.  The few anonymous freedom fighters this movement has are the real altuists and heros.  

The only realistic way to stop the violent is with violence. 

&quot;Deligitmize animal torture&quot; is a nice phrase, but what does it mean?  

When Soviet troops liberated the tortured human animals from Dachau, they effectively &quot;delegitimized&quot; the nazi&#039;s penchant to enslave jews in this camp.

The continued rhetoric in this movement about the ethics of violence does nothing more than REINFORCE SPECIESISM. This would never be an issue if the tortured animals in factory farms and labs were human children.

It just occurred to me that this is a major issue that needs to be addressed.  There is a deeply-rooted yet latent speciesism in the collective psyche of certain segments of this movement.   

Direct action was a fundamental tactic in every civil rights struggle.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Alistair,</p>
<p>Most infighting results from those who criticize, negate, and dismiss direct action.  The few anonymous freedom fighters this movement has are the real altuists and heros.  </p>
<p>The only realistic way to stop the violent is with violence. </p>
<p>&#8220;Deligitmize animal torture&#8221; is a nice phrase, but what does it mean?  </p>
<p>When Soviet troops liberated the tortured human animals from Dachau, they effectively &#8220;delegitimized&#8221; the nazi&#8217;s penchant to enslave jews in this camp.</p>
<p>The continued rhetoric in this movement about the ethics of violence does nothing more than REINFORCE SPECIESISM. This would never be an issue if the tortured animals in factory farms and labs were human children.</p>
<p>It just occurred to me that this is a major issue that needs to be addressed.  There is a deeply-rooted yet latent speciesism in the collective psyche of certain segments of this movement.   </p>
<p>Direct action was a fundamental tactic in every civil rights struggle.</p>
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		<title>By: Alistair</title>
		<link>http://negotiationisover.com/2009/11/28/13-ways-to-promote-alliance-politics-and-total-liberation/comment-page-1/#comment-4579</link>
		<dc:creator>Alistair</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 29 Nov 2009 07:40:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://negotiationisover.com/?p=4107#comment-4579</guid>
		<description>This is positive. I would support any effort to stop the in fighting or bashing of other groups that are working to change society to abolish animal abuse.

I would question the wisdom of addressing violence with more violence. How do you overcome the issue of delegitimising the real issue of animal torture and suffering when the messenger take up arms.

Doesn&#039;t everyone stop listening to the message and get nervous about the &#039;gun&#039;.

We can&#039;t afford to be silenced.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is positive. I would support any effort to stop the in fighting or bashing of other groups that are working to change society to abolish animal abuse.</p>
<p>I would question the wisdom of addressing violence with more violence. How do you overcome the issue of delegitimising the real issue of animal torture and suffering when the messenger take up arms.</p>
<p>Doesn&#8217;t everyone stop listening to the message and get nervous about the &#8216;gun&#8217;.</p>
<p>We can&#8217;t afford to be silenced.</p>
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		<title>By: Stacey Rakic</title>
		<link>http://negotiationisover.com/2009/11/28/13-ways-to-promote-alliance-politics-and-total-liberation/comment-page-1/#comment-4578</link>
		<dc:creator>Stacey Rakic</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 29 Nov 2009 03:58:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://negotiationisover.com/?p=4107#comment-4578</guid>
		<description>People frequently condemn veganism and animal rights as being for the privileged and reject it as such. In my less-experienced and under-read opinion, this is a major obstacle.  Excellent commentary and suggestions for confronting this issue.  

1) Difficult ~ yes!  Does 2) provide the materials to grasp an understanding of 1)?

5) &quot;It must be repackaged as a cost-effective diet, as well as the healthiest, most ethical, and best path toward ecological regeneration and sustainability.&quot;  Yesyesyes...how to approach and achieve?  6) A clear direction.

11) It would be beneficial to have a group similar to Innocence Project, except focusing on AR prisoners, with legal minds involved, if there is not already.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>People frequently condemn veganism and animal rights as being for the privileged and reject it as such. In my less-experienced and under-read opinion, this is a major obstacle.  Excellent commentary and suggestions for confronting this issue.  </p>
<p>1) Difficult ~ yes!  Does 2) provide the materials to grasp an understanding of 1)?</p>
<p>5) &#8220;It must be repackaged as a cost-effective diet, as well as the healthiest, most ethical, and best path toward ecological regeneration and sustainability.&#8221;  Yesyesyes&#8230;how to approach and achieve?  6) A clear direction.</p>
<p>11) It would be beneficial to have a group similar to Innocence Project, except focusing on AR prisoners, with legal minds involved, if there is not already.</p>
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		<title>By: 13 Ways to Promote Alliance Politics and Total Liberation &#171; Thomas Paine&#39;s Corner</title>
		<link>http://negotiationisover.com/2009/11/28/13-ways-to-promote-alliance-politics-and-total-liberation/comment-page-1/#comment-4574</link>
		<dc:creator>13 Ways to Promote Alliance Politics and Total Liberation &#171; Thomas Paine&#39;s Corner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 29 Nov 2009 02:47:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://negotiationisover.com/?p=4107#comment-4574</guid>
		<description>[...] Simulposted with Negotiation is Over [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Simulposted with Negotiation is Over [...]</p>
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		<title>By: » 13 Ways to Promote Alliance Politics and Total Liberation &#8230;</title>
		<link>http://negotiationisover.com/2009/11/28/13-ways-to-promote-alliance-politics-and-total-liberation/comment-page-1/#comment-4572</link>
		<dc:creator>» 13 Ways to Promote Alliance Politics and Total Liberation &#8230;</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Nov 2009 23:44:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://negotiationisover.com/?p=4107#comment-4572</guid>
		<description>[...]  [...]</description>
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		<title>By: Angela Gunn</title>
		<link>http://negotiationisover.com/2009/11/28/13-ways-to-promote-alliance-politics-and-total-liberation/comment-page-1/#comment-4571</link>
		<dc:creator>Angela Gunn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Nov 2009 23:24:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://negotiationisover.com/?p=4107#comment-4571</guid>
		<description>I am not sure what political party I should be supporting I act on behalf of the animals and I believe in free speech which political party speaks up for the Animals could you please get back to me on this Thankyou</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am not sure what political party I should be supporting I act on behalf of the animals and I believe in free speech which political party speaks up for the Animals could you please get back to me on this Thankyou</p>
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